Dax Shepard has some explaining to do after his statements in a discussion about transgender children on his podcast episode featuring Jonathan Van Ness. Shepard, 48, clashed with the Queer Eyestar during a Monday episode of Armchair Expert that brought Van Ness to tears.
Van Ness, who is non-binary and uses he/she/they pronouns, is a prominent ally for LGBTQ+ rights so found themselves on the defensive when the topic of gender-affirming care for trans kids came up.
Van Ness, 36, and Shepard first came to blows when the podcast host stated that The New York Times “absolutely is” left-leaning. Van Ness pushed back citing articles from the Times that drew criticism earlier this year for their use of pseudoscience and charged language when reporting on gender-affirming healthcare.
“They’re anti-trans, they platform multiple anti-trans people,” Van Ness said. In opposition, the Parenthood actor doubled down, stating that the outlet was “challenging” recent conversations about the need for puberty blockers and hormone replacement therapy.
“Some people are very uncomfortable about teenagers transitioning. How do we know that the person’s not gonna change their mind?” Shepard said. “This whole notion that to be critical… or to even question it makes you an enemy. I don’t think that’s the way forward.”
“I feel like I’m talking to my dad,” said Van Ness. “All I’m saying is what we know about misinformation and disinformation is when you have an outsized reaction to something, there’s a good chance that you’re being exposed to misinformation and disinformation. And a lot of the rhetoric around the anti-trans backlash does have a lot of misinformation and disinformation in it.”
“I’m not calling you a transphobe,” the reality star noted later in the episode. “You can not be transphobic and still have thoughts that espouse trans misogyny and espouse transphobic ideologies and beliefs.”
Van Ness was quick to point out how tiring it is for him and others in the LGBTQ+ community to have to explain and defend themselves, saying, “I think if you aren’t personally impacted by an issue, for people who are, it just is a bit exhausting.”
Shepard, however, kept bringing up a perceived erasure of cis women. “Do I wish that the trans woman athlete had access and could play and follow her dream? I do. Will I elevate her rights over women? We’re pretending that women aren’t the ultimate marginalized class throughout history,” he told Van Ness.
Van Ness noted that it is “disappointing” when people claim to be fighting for women’s rights while excluding trans kids from sports. “I could just cry because I’m so tired of having to fight for little kids because they just want to be included. I wish that people were as passionate about little kids being able to be included or grow up as they were about fictitious women’s fairness in sports,” Van Ness told Shepard.
Shepard did apologize to a very tearful Van Ness within the podcast, telling them that he didn’t intend to start a debate. “I didn’t want that at all,” he said. “I adore you. I think that you’re hysterical and talented, and I love that you’re an activist.”
“I’m not disappointed in you I’m just emotionally exhausted,” Van Ness told Shepard at one point. They also offered a closing statement before the conversation shifted. “If there’s one thing I could leave you with: Little kids are not getting gender reassignment surgery. Three-year-olds are not getting hysterectomies. They’re not getting breast implants.”
“I’m scared of the vitriol that trans people face every day,” Van Ness stated.
Online, listeners questioned Shepard’s need to play “devil’s advocate” and present fear-based narratives that distract from the very real issues faced by trans people and children every day. As one TikTok user wrote in response to a video about the episode, “I don’t understand having to find a middle ground when one side’s ask is just to exist.”
Before you go, click here to see LGBTQ celebrities who came out later in life.
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